[Fwd: Re: [SEELANGS] [Fwd: [mova] Re: [SEELANGS] Transl. &

Mon Jul 18 13:35:07 EDT 2005

Hey Joshua, sounds like you know a thing or two about the prisoners' slang in the US. Please see my final comment - it's a cultural thing, not a linguistic one. I believe that dictionaries are useless in this context. Someone who is knowledgeable about the jail (criminal) slang would have the right word. It may be something totally different from "toss" "frisk" etc., something that is used in this context. For example a number of dictionaries give "frisk" as the equivalent for the "shmon", but I'm not sure about it..., ditto for the "toss" option.

So, anybody out there who ever read, heard or listened to a real slang in the US?

Victor Shevchenko

Max Pyziur <pyz at brama.com> wrote:
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] [Fwd: [mova] Re: [SEELANGS] Transl. &
English-speaking prisoners]] From: "Mr Joshua Wilson"

Date: Mon, July 18, 2005 4:01 am
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
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Sorry, but I need to disagree with the "toss" option.
Prisoners in the US use "toss" and "to toss a salad"
in a completly sexual (and rather disgusting) context.
I don't think that's what you are going for here....

--- Max Pyziur 
wrote:

> ---------------------------- Original Message
> ----------------------------
> Subject: [mova] Re: [SEELANGS] Transl. &
> English-speaking prisoners] From:
> "Victor Shevchenko" 
> Date: Sun, July 17, 2005 7:08 pm
> To: "Max Pyziur" 

> mova at brama.com
>
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>
>
> Tim, I agree with a "toss" option. "Shmon" in
> Ukrainian doesn't have a
> "brutal" meaning. Rather it's a criminal slang (with
> a somewhat disdainful
> hue) for "search". And, as you pointed out, it
> doesn't relate to a search
> of a human being only, but it can also refer to the
> prison cell "shmon",
> army barracks shmon etc. Sometimes it is used to
> describe an attempt to
> clean and organize things up in a teenager's room,
> the home of a man left
> unattended by his significant other's absence on a
> business trip for more
> than three days etc ... :-)
>
>
>
> "Shmonaye" is just a verb form of "shmon", thus "to
> toss" can be used.
>
>
>
> As for "parasha"... well, it ain't nice ...:-) "shit
> bucket" is very close
> but I guess somebody who is familiar with a living
> English criminal slang
> could offer a better word, ditto for "shmon". The
> thing is these are
> cultural rather than linguistic translations and
> should be approached
> accordingly.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Victor Shevchenko
>
> Max Pyziur 
wrote:
> ---------------------------- Original Message
> ----------------------------
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Transl. & English-speaking
> prisoners
> From: "Timothy D. Sergay"
> Date: Thu, July 14, 2005 4:43 pm
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
>
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>
> Dear Natalya:
>
> You're very welcome. Merriam Webster's dictionary
> has for "frisk"
> (transitive verb): "to search (a person) for
> something (as a concealed
> weapon) by running the hand rapidly over the
> clothing and through the
> pockets." "Frisk" is definitely not your word: it's
> not brutal, and is
> close to "pat down." The closest English term for
> *shmon* in your sense is
> almost certainly "strip search" (also a transitive
> verb: to strip search a
> prisoner); to make its brutal, physical nature clear
> in English you would
> also precede the nominal term with some adjective(s)
> like "invasive" (36
> google hits) "brutal" (12 hits), "humiliating" (443
> hits).
>
> Tim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Chandler"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 4:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Transl. & English-speaking
> prisoners
>
>
> > Dear Natalya,
> >
> >> -- Concerning *shmon* / *shmonaie*: I wonder
> whether English-
> speaking prisoners
> >> would say *frisk* - *the sargent frisks* when
> referring to a rather
> brutal
> >> search of the person?
> > To my English (rather than American) ear, 'frisk'
> definitely does not
> sound
> > brutal.
> >
> > Robert
> >
> >
>
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>
> Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine
> pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/
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