[Fwd: Re: [SEELANGS] [Fwd: [mova] Re: [SEELANGS] Transl. &

[Max Pyziur]

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] [Fwd: [mova] Re: [SEELANGS] Transl. &
English-speaking prisoners]] From:    "Mr Joshua Wilson"
<philosopherking1848 at YAHOO.COM>
Date:    Mon, July 18, 2005 4:01 am
To:      SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
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Sorry, but I need to disagree with the "toss" option.
Prisoners in the US use "toss" and "to toss a salad"
in a completly sexual (and rather disgusting) context.
 I don't think that's what you are going for here....


--- Max Pyziur <pyz at BRAMA.COM> wrote:

> ---------------------------- Original Message
> ----------------------------
> Subject: [mova] Re: [SEELANGS] Transl. &
> English-speaking prisoners] From:
>    "Victor Shevchenko" <vic_shevchenko at yahoo.ca>
> Date:    Sun, July 17, 2005 7:08 pm
> To:      "Max Pyziur" <pyz at brama.com>
>          mova at brama.com
>
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>
>
> Tim, I agree with a "toss" option. "Shmon" in
> Ukrainian doesn't have a
> "brutal" meaning. Rather it's a criminal slang (with
> a somewhat disdainful
> hue) for "search". And, as you pointed out, it
> doesn't relate to a search
> of a human being only, but it can also refer to the
> prison cell "shmon",
> army barracks shmon etc. Sometimes it is used to
> describe an attempt to
> clean and organize things up in a teenager's room,
> the home of a man left
> unattended by his significant other's absence on a
> business trip for more
> than three days etc ... :-)
>
>
>
> "Shmonaye" is just a verb form of "shmon", thus "to
> toss" can be used.
>
>
>
> As for "parasha"... well, it ain't nice ...:-) "shit
> bucket" is very close
> but I guess somebody who is familiar with a living
> English criminal slang
> could offer a better word, ditto for "shmon". The
> thing is these are
> cultural rather than linguistic translations and
> should be approached
> accordingly.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Victor Shevchenko
>
> Max Pyziur <pyz at brama.com> wrote:
> ---------------------------- Original Message
> ----------------------------
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Transl. & English-speaking
> prisoners
> From: "Timothy D. Sergay"
> Date: Thu, July 14, 2005 4:43 pm
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
>
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>
> Dear Natalya:
>
> You're very welcome. Merriam Webster's dictionary
> has for "frisk"
> (transitive verb): "to search (a person) for
> something (as a concealed
> weapon) by running the hand rapidly over the
> clothing and through the
> pockets." "Frisk" is definitely not your word: it's
> not brutal, and is
> close to "pat down." The closest English term for
> *shmon* in your sense is
> almost certainly "strip search" (also a transitive
> verb: to strip search a
> prisoner); to make its brutal, physical nature clear
> in English you would
> also precede the nominal term with some adjective(s)
> like "invasive" (36
> google hits) "brutal" (12 hits), "humiliating" (443
> hits).
>
> Tim
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Chandler"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 4:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Transl. & English-speaking
> prisoners
>
>
> > Dear Natalya,
> >
> >> -- Concerning *shmon* / *shmonaie*: I wonder
> whether English-
> speaking prisoners
> >> would say *frisk* - *the sargent frisks* when
> referring to a rather
> brutal
> >> search of the person?
> > To my English (rather than American) ear, 'frisk'
> definitely does not
> sound
> > brutal.
> >
> > Robert
> >
> >
>
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>
>
> Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine
> pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/
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