Re: Apples and Orange Revolutions

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Posted by their law on February 08, 2006 at 18:24:00:

In Reply to: Apples and Orange Revolutions posted by mseidner on February 08, 2006 at 16:49:17:

Certainly, there is a world of difference between United States and Ukraine, and living standards are different. What I'm trying to say is that US society has its own problems as well. But your previous message pictured Ukraine as the country that degenerates rather than develops. But this is not correct. This is my main point. Itís very easy to picture any country in this way. But it will not reflect the true picture of the country. In other words, your message is quiet biased.

In America majority of poor people do face real problems. No health insurance = you are in big troubles in US. Donít you agree?

The level of corruption in USA is conducted at such a high level that it does not affect regular citizen, this is true. You wonít believe it but here in Ukraine I canít remember when I paid bribe last time, considering I own a company Iím potential ďbribe payerĒ. The biggest bribe I remember in years is UAH 10 to road police. Now even this I paid maybe a half year ago last time.

I donít know what middle class you met in Sevastopol, but middle class in Ukraine can afford medical treatment, at least where I live. I donít think the mother of a girl you told about belongs to middle class by Ukrainian standards.

In the brief history of Crimea you forgot to mention genocide against Tatars when they were deported to Siberia after World War II. One more reason why Crimea lost its population.

Russian is the language in most common use in Sevastopol, some (not all) cities of Eastern Ukraine. But it is not in most common use in all over Ukraine. 70% of people living in Ukraine consider Ukrainian their native language. There are MANY cities and towns south of USA with Latino population exceeding 50%. Enough to say that Spanish is in most common use in some parts of USA as Russian in Ukraine. So why government does not make Spanish to be state language?

People cannot make their choice on everything. I.e. how people can make choice on tax paying? They would choose to not pay taxes. Or can people make choice whether government should start war in Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq? As Karl Marks said ďthe State is the tool of violence dedicated to protect the interests of ruling classĒ. It is the same in US, Ukraine or elsewhere. Again, while people can make choice whether to communicate Russian or not (no one prevents them from doing this), that still does not mean they should ignore Ukrainian. Only poor or ignorant people from Latino America does not want (or canít afford?) to learn English, every other Spanish-speaking person in US will learn and know English and would not complain why he canít get documents in Spanish.

Whether one language is superior over another is not the point for most of Ukrainians, but I notice itís a big point for any Russian, which is not right, but this is true.

That generation I was talking about are little kids, not teenagers that drink vodka or take drugs that you are sweeping up after on your daughterís school playground. There will be not years but decades while middle class Ukrainians will not see syringes and vodka bottles on their children school playground, because in some 20 to 30 years Ukraine will completely become the country divided in classes like it is in US and any country with developed capitalism. Though, now I see the level of drug-using and drinking is much less even among teenagers (those who now leave vodka and syringes you see). You did not live here 10 years ago, you would certainly agree with me.

So, one can see only bad things in Ukraine (as you do), another can see only good things (like some in this message board), and someone is able to see both bad and good things and try to get this country better. Because life of the country does not depend some ďbad politiciansĒ in Kiev, it depends on every single person of this country. So, to me, the glass is half full.


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