About "the Rusyn question" to Joe

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: >>Guess what: Very successful conversion into Ukrainian. : There was no conversion. : >> If you increase a little bit the Ukrainian nationalistic pressure, the number can easily reach 400 000 Greek Catholics and 0 Rusyns or, as you call them, 0 Ukrainians. : I don't quite understand your logic. How does Ukraine make Slovak Rusyns converted into Slovaks? : >> And all Rusysns will be Ukrainian, etc. : Where the hell did you see me say that? If someone believes he is not Ukrainian, so be it! : >> This is the lowest GDP/capita in Europe. : Dunno about Europe, but Transcarpathia proudly carried the title of THE poorest region of the Austrian Empire throughout the existence of the latter. It certainly was the poorest region of Chechoslovakia, too. You might know that about half the population emigrated to America. Half of the other half worked all over Europe until it was possible, and all over Soviet Union afterwards. Now we are all over Europe again, mostly in the neighboring countries, but I know people who worked in Germany, Canada, US. C'est la vie. : >>How can you accept and propagate the policy of the CPU against the Rusyns that is responsible for these crimes? : : This is what they call far-reaching conclusions, I guess. I'm glad you did not accuse me of supporting Holodomor as well. : >>You are right, none. : That was my point. : >> the famous Ukrainian guards emerged in Nazi Concentration Camps, : Well, the fame of those famous guards is created purely by the propaganda of your beloved communists, who thus wahted to prove the equality Ukrainian = fascist. : >> However, the fact is that Ukrainians from Galicia formulated anti-Jewish low in Voloshyn's government of Transcarpathia. : Could I have some references on this fact, please. : >>Fortunately, this Nazi government : Dou you mean the democratically elected government of Carpathian Ukraine? Ah, I forgot that you are accustomed to trust the communist propaganda. : >>did not put in practice anything effectively because lasted about two weeks, : Yup, because the region was occupied by Horty, who did put a lot of things into practice. About half of the population of Velyky Berezny was Jewish, now all that is left is the building of the sinagogue, turned into Budynok Kul'tury. : : >>Nonsensical question. Annexation from whom, non-existing Austro-Hungary or Kyievan Rus? : What about independent Ruthenia? What the hell did we have to do with Czechoslovakia at all? Why were we not annexed to Belgium, instead? : >>but it does occur in towns of Transcarpathia. : I don't think so. : >>Did it ever occur to you that not only economical reasons are involved that so many Hungarian speaking people of Transcarpathia left, : No, it did not occur to me, since this is not true. : >>but it has to do also with a social environment : When was the last time you were in the Hungarian part of Transcarpathia? The social environment there is about the same as that across the border. : >>created by those who proudly and loudly claiming "I am Rusyn and therefore Ukrainian"?. : So, I guess, claiming "I am Rusyn and not Ukrainian" creates a better social environment? You will need some more effort to make me understand your logic : >>My statement is based also on the fact that there is not one single Rusyn folk song that would mention Cossacks, : No wonder, as there were no kozaks in Transcarpathia. Your statement was "Rusyns had nothing to do with kozaks", which is somewhat stronger. : >> Perhaps, you find very attractive glorification of Cossacks, I do not. : Well, tastes differ :-) : >>Ukraine would be far better off without hetjman's mentality. : There is no "would be" in history. I also do not know what "Het'man mentality" is. : >>You are missing the point. Serf status (Krepostnoje pravo) in Rusyns of Transcarpathia lasted far less than in Russia/Ukraine and even less than in some regions of Hungary. : By what? By ten years? : : >>You know it is not very difficult to be stupid. : Probably. You might know better. : >>You can even question of its existence. : You can't. : >>to be called Rusyns and not Ukrainians, : Well, it's emigrants who learn at school that they are Rusyns. I somehow learned that about the time I learned to talk. : : Well, about as much as Bretons want to be called Bretons, and not French. : : >>This is a basic human right issue whether one considers himself Hungarian, Rusyn, Slovak or Ukrainian. This is not your, mine or Mr. President Kuchma's business. : Exactly. Yet, you just wrote that children need to be taught at school to call themselves Rusyn. Does not this seem slightly inconsistent to you? : : >>Since 1990, they are independent in vilna Ukraina. The fate of Ukrainian citizens are decided in Kyiev, : It's Kyiv : >>Are you telling that the Rusyns who are not converted into Ukrainians are responsible for state-of-affairs in Ukraine? : I am telling you definitely need some fresh air. : >>Well, it has to be a compliment for the former mayor of Uzhhorod to be in the same league as the former PM of Ukraine, : Well, they certainly ARE in the same league. : >> However, I am sure in one thing, namely that a mayor of Uzhhorod cannot steal so much from Ukraine as a Prime Minister of Ukraine. : :-) Well, you are wrong again. Of course, Ratushniak did not steal in such a stupid way as Lazarenko did. : >> I do not know whether the situation improved in Uzhhorod since the raid of a special police force from Kyiev on Ratushniak's office. : That was a looong time ago. Uzhhorod looks much better now. Not as credit to the new mayor, of course. It's just that even the Ukrainian laws cannot prevent people from working :-) : >>Don't you think it would be better for Ukraine if Mr. Lazarenko was the target instead of Ratushniak? : I think, it does not matter for Ukraine. What needs to be changed is the whole system. : >>...hetjman's ganster mentality that is so prevailing currently in Ukraine? : I woul call it slave mentality. It took the Jews 40 years, remember? : : >>How? By converting them into Ukrainians and forcing children to "balakaty" to each other and to their parents? : Yes, you certainly need some fresh air. : >>A Rusyn who did not study a Ukrainian language has difficulties to understand it. : Are you talking about yourself? : >>This is a foreign language for them. : As I was trying to explain to you, what you believe to be Rusyn is even more foreign. : >>You can force incompetent economic decisions on Uzhhorod from Kyiev by stupid nationalistic policy, but not on Kosice and/or Debrecen. : So, are we talking about language, or is it about economic decisions. If it is the latter, then what is your reason to believe that the incopetent economic decisions originating in Uzhhorod itself are better than those originating in Kyiv? : : I'm repeating myself, but I'll do it again. The main problem with you, Yanko : There is no problem with me, thus, in particular, no main problem. : >> you do not have a foggiest notion on Jefferson's ideas: life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. : These are not Jefferson's ideas, this is Jefferson's formulation of them in the US Constitution. : >>And how can it be applied to develop a flourishing country. : How many flourishing countries have you developed, applying these ideas? I guess, you just came to/were born in a developed one. I do not know if you realize this, but it is much more difficult to actually build something on these ideas than to proclaim them. : Regards, Yanko

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