Re: Language

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Posted by Stefan on March 29, 2000 at 00:17:22:

In Reply to: Re: Language posted by Slawko on March 28, 2000 at 15:01:57:

:
: : I really enjoyed reading the messages concerning the beautiful Ukrainian language.
: : However, some of the people involved with the discussions seem narrow minded and shallow. How do the Unkrainian people feel about making concessions for other languages? For example, the langauge of the Carpathian peoples and the other minorities in the country.
: : Do UKrainians really wish the "Ukrainize" the country just to overcome the problem with Russian? Furthermore, it would be nice to see a revival of Yiddish in the Unkraine. Ukrainians will speak Ukrainian if they desire to do so. A extreme policy concerning official status will not help the Ukrainian language flourish. In fact, I think it will destroy the dignity of what Ukrainians really want for their country.
: : Charles Josef

: Who is narrow minded,the people that miss the point of this discussion.To the point,would you like to see the President and Parliment speak in foreign language to the people in your country,go to it man and good luck to you too.This discussion is not what language people should talk.If people want to talk in any language let them talk,who in hell cares.The Ukrainian language must be official in the country.So there,any more funny stories or suggestions about language.Thanks a lot,have a pleasant day.

I read through some of this discussion, and here, finally it has come to the point (Disclaimer -- All that follows, is strictly IMHO): Narrow-mindedness. Couldn't agree any stronger.

Observe the tendency. "Insiders" have it all sorted out to the point where there is no question at all -- only Ukrainian, and isn't it obvious or what?! "Outsiders" (the division being somewhat conditional, but still visible) say that, perhaps it would be wise for you guys to adopt a somewhat broader approach to the problem. To which "insiders" reply that, basically, hey, if you don't understand, keep your nose out of our affairs.

Let's try to call things their names. If there's an independent state, it probably has to have its own state language. ("Probably" is a reference to the fact that there are well-known examples of states that only use imported languages, and last time I checked they were not doing bad at all.) But here the question is not about the establishing of Ukrainian -- it's about the expulsion of Russian. Because for the most part there's nothing to establish -- it's already there: any normally educated person that studied in a Soviet-time school in present Ukraine, save perhaps for some part in the east, knows Ukrainian.

And that's where we come to narrow-mindedness... You want to close yourselves off, enforce one language and get rid of the rest -- for the most part I think that's fine with the rest of the world. Somehow that is not where the world is going, but hey -- it's an independent country which is free to set its own policies and be proud of the results. Not that the world will know anything about that pride, though (like it doesn't know now), but again, if that makes you feel good -- so be it!

I know that the counterarguments will be like "We're only talking about the official language, let people at home ...... ". Sure, that avoids sounding too politically incorrect and kind of drives away that sworm of human rights defenders. But let's not be naive. We've been there. We know how it was done (in the opposite direction) in the good old USSR, and the people remain the same. Knowing only the same methods. It's all right here -- read the messages on this bulletin board. "The minority can't dictate to the 76% majority" (supposedly you've asked those 76% what they want and are just voicing their opinion...). When was the last time we saw this type of argument?

Again, you wish to take pride in yourselves and tell the rest of the world that they, not you, are narrow-minded -- no problem, it's a free world. Maybe you'll even get a smile (I don't want to say "condescending smile" -- it's a matter of definition and perception) in reply.

Just to place the words in context -- a very short autobiography :-) I was born in Kiev and lived there most of the time until 1998, and I currently live in the USA.

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Re: Language Ihor Solovey 03/29/00 (0)

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Re: Language Stefan 03/29/00 (5)

Re: Language lesia 03/30/00 (4)

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: : : : : I really enjoyed reading the messages concerning the beautiful Ukrainian language. : : : However, some of the people involved with the discussions seem narrow minded and shallow. How do the Unkrainian people feel about making concessions for other languages? For example, the langauge of the Carpathian peoples and the other minorities in the country. : : : Do UKrainians really wish the "Ukrainize" the country just to overcome the problem with Russian? Furthermore, it would be nice to see a revival of Yiddish in the Unkraine. Ukrainians will speak Ukrainian if they desire to do so. A extreme policy concerning official status will not help the Ukrainian language flourish. In fact, I think it will destroy the dignity of what Ukrainians really want for their country. : : : Charles Josef : : Who is narrow minded,the people that miss the point of this discussion.To the point,would you like to see the President and Parliment speak in foreign language to the people in your country,go to it man and good luck to you too.This discussion is not what language people should talk.If people want to talk in any language let them talk,who in hell cares.The Ukrainian language must be official in the country.So there,any more funny stories or suggestions about language.Thanks a lot,have a pleasant day. : : I read through some of this discussion, and here, finally it has come to the point (Disclaimer -- All that follows, is strictly IMHO): Narrow-mindedness. Couldn't agree any stronger. : Observe the tendency. "Insiders" have it all sorted out to the point where there is no question at all -- only Ukrainian, and isn't it obvious or what?! "Outsiders" (the division being somewhat conditional, but still visible) say that, perhaps it would be wise for you guys to adopt a somewhat broader approach to the problem. To which "insiders" reply that, basically, hey, if you don't understand, keep your nose out of our affairs. : Let's try to call things their names. If there's an independent state, it probably has to have its own state language. ("Probably" is a reference to the fact that there are well-known examples of states that only use imported languages, and last time I checked they were not doing bad at all.) But here the question is not about the establishing of Ukrainian -- it's about the expulsion of Russian. Because for the most part there's nothing to establish -- it's already there: any normally educated person that studied in a Soviet-time school in present Ukraine, save perhaps for some part in the east, knows Ukrainian. : And that's where we come to narrow-mindedness... You want to close yourselves off, enforce one language and get rid of the rest -- for the most part I think that's fine with the rest of the world. Somehow that is not where the world is going, but hey -- it's an independent country which is free to set its own policies and be proud of the results. Not that the world will know anything about that pride, though (like it doesn't know now), but again, if that makes you feel good -- so be it! : I know that the counterarguments will be like "We're only talking about the official language, let people at home ...... ". Sure, that avoids sounding too politically incorrect and kind of drives away that sworm of human rights defenders. But let's not be naive. We've been there. We know how it was done (in the opposite direction) in the good old USSR, and the people remain the same. Knowing only the same methods. It's all right here -- read the messages on this bulletin board. "The minority can't dictate to the 76% majority" (supposedly you've asked those 76% what they want and are just voicing their opinion...). When was the last time we saw this type of argument? : Again, you wish to take pride in yourselves and tell the rest of the world that they, not you, are narrow-minded -- no problem, it's a free world. Maybe you'll even get a smile (I don't want to say "condescending smile" -- it's a matter of definition and perception) in reply. : Just to place the words in context -- a very short autobiography :-) I was born in Kiev and lived there most of the time until 1998, and I currently live in the USA.

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