Posted by Bohdan Oryshkevich on March 06, 2001 at 00:45:41:
In Reply to: Re: Dead Horse - Still Kicking - and Died! posted by Ihor S. on March 06, 2001 at 00:05:47:
I thank you for your comments. I agree with you more than you realize. We were discussing primarily about the ossified Lviv type of the Ukrainian Diaspora.
There were many people who helped Jews. That includes members of my family. My parents rediscovered these people in America after the war. But my parents have told me much of what happened and it is not pretty.
But I do not think that western Ukrainians of that time or this time have a great love for Jews. Individual heroism even if in the hundreds does not substitute for public opinion. I think that the village people of Lviv oblast had positive relations with Jews. But the intelligentsia identified with the German power. I would point out that that was true in many countries of Europe that were conquered by Germany from Poland to France to Holland. I do not think that Ukrainians were worse than most of these countries especially since these countries had political sophistication beyond anything seen in Ukraine. The Germans had a powerful propaganda machine and they exploited the fear of bolshevism very well.
I think that you missed the point of the thread. My criticism was that Ukrainian Americans make the Waffen SS Galicia Division as their own here in America. Even with the benefit of hindsight. There is a kind of romanticization of the victim. While I could understand why all those old men would rationalize their behavior, I do not understand why sixteen year olds who know nothing about Ukrainian history have made the Ukrainian Waffen SS Galicia Division a subject of their own identity. Parents who have not given their children a positive Ukrainian identity independent of Ukraine's worst moments have failed. Miserably I might add. I would not judge them as individuals but I would not defend them. See my post Dear Markian.
I deal with people from western Ukraine all the time and many of them blame all of Ukraine's problems upon Jews. One man who claims to be educated who is from western Ukraine and who is based in NYC told me that Ukraine is superior than the USA because it got rid of the Jews. I can cite many other examples. Western Ukrainian meetings of the old diaspora are filled with totally needless invectives against Jews. Eastern Ukrainians are not like this.
I have no love for the Soviets. Ukrainians welcomed Germans because of the Soviet repressions which are in my opinion of a different character than the holocaust. I think that they are worse because they dealt with the whole range of personal, cultural, and political identity. Hitler tried simply to kill all Jews. His intentions were clear and thankfully he failed. The Stalinist and other terrors destroyed the Ukrainian psyche as is painfully obvious in Ukraine today. They succeeded in some ways.
Demyanyuk was not proven innocent. He was proven not to be Ivan the Terrible. He admitted to being a guard in another camp in order not to be convicted of being Ivan the Terrible. His issue is a private one. No person could testify as to where and who he was. He met his wife after the War. I see no reason why Ukrainians should rally behind him.
I am not certain that the Ukrainian Self Reliance Association would have helped a girl from Halychyna but I have seen much help in that direction. That was in 1994 when Novoprybuli were still a novelty. So I had reason that they would help her. This girl was in a homeless shelter on Times Square.
Bohdan Oryshkevich
usa.usa@attglobal.net
Bohdan Oryshkevich
usa.usa@attglobal.net