Re: Language Debate to "Joe"

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: : TO:IHOR SOLOVEY : : I was thinking from your previous questions and comments that you are just an ignorant person. : There's no need for personal insults. I hope it's only a false image of you. : : Now, I am getting impression that you are also arrogant. You ignored my responses to your previous questions : I'm sorry, I was checking once or twice for those answers, and didn't find any, so I just presumed you're no longer participating in the discussion. : : and, now, you are coming up with new ones. To demonstrate it, I have decided to paste my previous answers here again. : Thanks! : : Your response to my statement on official Ukrainian policy toward Rusyns in Podkarpatska Rus was your personal experience, therefore, I have indicated to you to look up three official documents: one from the US State Department; and two from the European Centre for Minority Issues (ECMI). Of course, these official documents are "anti-Ukrainian propaganda" : I don't care. Quote them, if you have time. : > and your personal experience is the only reality. : I never said that. If you have a different experience, tell us about it. : : Thus, comrade Solovey-Razbojnik, : Well, at least I have a courage to sign under my words. : : you should do your homework first, and find out the facts and then rise questions. : Tell me your vision of those facts and stop this crap, please. : : The Referendum of December 1, 1991 for the re-establishment of the historical state system of Subcarpathian Rus in the form of an autonomous Transcarpathia (special self-governed territory) as a part of Ukraine - 78% of the adult population voted, and for Hungarian ethnic district of Beregovo (Beregszaz)- 91% of population voted. Response from Kyiv was SKASUVATY!!!. : You know, your stories don't become facts until you prove them. In this case, it could very well be true, but I'm unaware of such referendum. Maybe you could find some reliable resources to read on this issue? : : However, the autonomy was O.K. for Krym. Why is this difference in treatment of citizens of Ukraine? : Maybe because autonomy in Crimea already excisted and they didn't want to destroy it, but their policies about creating new ones were not as liberal? : : The answer is clear. : To you, maybe. You seem to like to jump into conclusions based on your partijnoe chutje. : : Behind Krym is the Russian power, however, behind the Rusyns of Transcarpathia is only a democratic process. : I still haven't seen the poll results, so I won't jump into conclusions. : : Ach ta demokratija, what a nonsense!!! Let’s hope that Ukraine will somehow survive the next ten years with current nationalistic communists : I'm sorry, but what you just said is a pure nonsence. Communists cannot be nationalists. One of key idea of communism is internationalism. : : and a new generation of Ukrainian will have some common sense. : If such autonomy is really wanted, government should make another referendum. That's my personal opinion. : : I am not going to answer your latest question because your questions are intended just mislead. : My questions are perfectly sensible, but if you don't want to answer them - it's find with me, however, I still won't know what is the point of all this. The key question is: Are you from Ukraine yourself? : : : : RE: To HANYA and SOLOVEY: You are talking about those Rusyns who became Ukrainians in the end of 19 and beginning of 20th. century during the time of Ivan-Franko. I’m talking about those Rusyns located from Karpatian Mountains west who were represented by Fr. Duchnovych. Well, the latecomers are always overly nationalistic and that’s why a number of them from Galicia and Bukovina served as famous guards in Nazi Concentration Camps. : Together with Ukrainians. It wasn't because of their nationalism in it's common understanding (as very extreme partiotism), they a) learned how to hold a rifle to jump to UPA later (which many of them eventually did) or b) misunderstood German policies and thought they would be better than Communist ones. : > The Rusyns what I’m talking about are those who were fighting against the Nazi Germany in Czechoslovak army stationed in USSR. They had been fighting, starting from Bela Cerkva up to Prague, and sacrificing their life not for vilna Ukraina or brutal Stalin’s annexation of Podkarpatska Rus (Transcarpathia) to USSR, but for democratic Czechoslovakia. : I don't think so. They perfectly understood that they are helping Soviets to bring Czechoslovakia under Soviet influence. They didn't know of course, they it would turn into simple slavery, but it wasn't that hard to guess seeng what communists did to Ukraine in 32-33 or what their policies were towards other nations of Soviet Union. In my opinion, they were blinded just like Soviet Army, they fought for what they believed in. : : Unlike converted Rusyns into Ukrainians, the Rusyns in Podkarpatska Rus had experienced to live in a highly developed democratic country for 20 years. In addition, you are ignoring the following documents: a)US Department of State, Human Rights Reports for 1999-Ukraine; b)the European Centre for Minority Issues (ECMI), Inter-Ethnic Relations in Transcarpathian Ukraine 1999; c)T.Trier (ECMI) Focus on Transcarpathia, 1999; : Quote. : : The amount of grain bought from the western neighbors of Ukraine was 350 000 t. (see the Slovak press SME, Novy Cas or Pravda or you can make an inquire to authorities in Uzhorod or Lviv, but not in members of RUCH. Those gays : Those "gays" did more for their Homeland than you ever will for yours, whereever it is. : : won’t tell you the truth in the name of “vilna Ukraina”.). This amount is not too much, and it’s easier to deliver it to Transcarpathia or Lviv oblast from the west than from Kazakhstan. : ?? : : What is striking that Slovakia had produced so much that it could even contribute to this transaction, although 70% of its territory are mountains and general perception is that its agriculture is inefficient due to socialistic past. : So it is because of mountains or socialistic past? If both, I'd rather be blaiming Paleozoic or Mezozoic era :-) : :(The agriculture sector of Slovakia represents a major obstacle for the EU entry.) Than obvious question is, how bad is it in Ukraine? My suggestion – in order to make efficient reforms, one has to know exactly the facts. (see the recent IMF investigation). : Of course Ukrainian goverment is corrupted. But what can Ukrainians do at the moment? Go back to svitle socialistychne mynule? Of course on the presidential elections there was no real other choice, not because Kostenko or Udovenko aren't good for the presidential chair, but because voting for them would give the communists a chance to win the elections. They were very united, while right-wing and centrists weren't. : :Patriotism is nice but not if it goes in expense of democracy and the rule of low. : Pariotism is partiotism. It's not nice, bad or so-so. It's either there or not. Patriotism in expence of of democracy isn't patriotism at all. But I don't know why are you talking about partioism when referring to Kuchma and co. In their case it's "economic mafia in government" or something, but patriotism? Hell no. : : Take a look on Slovakia’s problems and the role of the former prime minister Vladimir Meciar or Slobodan Milosevic : Slobo is not "patriotic". He's fascist. It's kind of extreme extreme form of patriotism, but isn't bolshevism an extreme form of social democracy? : : and Jugoslavia. The vast majority of former communists picked up fast the nationalistic slogans and flags, and they are ardent patriots. : Exactly. Inside they are communists and most of them will never change. Not Kuchma anyway. : : Joe

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