Re: Language Debate to Ihor Solovey

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: : : RE: They balked to be named Ukrainians because they are Rusyns and not Ukrainians. They learned to live peacefully with Hungarians, Slovaks, Poles, Germans, Czechs, Rumanians, Russians, Ukrainians and Jews. Unlike in Ukraine, where pogroms, starting from the time of the Ukrainian Cossack leader Bogdan Chmelnicky : : Is it neccessary to misspell every Ukrainian name you hear? : : >, were frequent for several centuries, there was not one single case of a pogrom against Jews or Germans in this region that was initiated by Rusyns. After brutal annexation of Transcarpathia, (majority of Rusyns live here) to USSR by Stalin and years of exposure to the Soviet system, these people did not develop animosity towards the dominant Russians as you can see it in Baltic Republics or in the case of many Ukrainians. Currently, Transcarpathia has about 50 000 Russians. The Ukrainians are keen of Cossacks (kozac'koho rodu) as they defined themselves in their national anthem. Rusyns have nothing to do with Cossacks whatsoever. These are village centric, mountain people, their life is concentrated around family, church and community, and their history is very different. : : They may be ethnical Rusyns, but from my experience they have nothing against calling them Ukrainians (either as a citizen of Ukraine or even ethnical Ukrainian). You are the first person I encountered that makes such a big issue out of this. Did you live in Ukraine yourself? : : > Their language is closer to Ukrainian than to Russian language, but that's it. Currently, they would like to learn in schools their own Rusyn language, culture and history, to be called Rusyns and not Ukrainians, and have some control over their own life. : : Their culture and history is closely tied to Ukrainian and studied in regions where they live, I'm sure. As of being recognised as Rusyns, I haven't seen them eagerly want to do that, but maybe they should. It's their business whether they consider themselves Ukrainians or a different ethnos. : : > They are trying to reach these goals peacefully and not to secede from Ukraine. Well, Ukrainians have a chance to demonstrate that they can handle the Rusyn problem in a civilized way and not as Russians used to do it. As you may know, Ukrainians would like to join the EU. This should be a good litmus test for them. Finally, isn't it amazing how nationalistic feeling limits a capacity to think. The argument for compulsory use of Ukrainian language goes "because of closeness of Russia, the Russian speaking population becomes a part of Russia …etc". And what about Swiss French and language in Switzerland? The French speaking Swiss could be a part of France, but they do not wont to be. : : 1. Yes, but there is no independent Ruthenia. : : 2. I never noticed them so eagerly want to be recognised as different nation. Maybe you come from, say, Slovakian regions where Rusyns live and their national counsciousness is bigger? : : > Is it so difficult to comprehend that the Swiss French remained as a part of Switzerland because they have more control over their life? : : Than in France? : : : Sincerely, Joe : TO:IHOR SOLOVEY : I was thinking from your previous questions and comments that you are just an ignorant person. Now, I am getting impression that you are also arrogant. You ignored my responses to your previous questions and, now, you are coming up with new ones. To demonstrate it, I have decided to paste my previous answers here again. : Your response to my statement on official Ukrainian policy toward Rusyns in Podkarpatska Rus was your personal experience, therefore, I have indicated to you to look up three official documents: one from the US State Department; and two from the European Centre for Minority Issues (ECMI). Of course, these official documents are "anti-Ukrainian propaganda" and your personal experience is the only reality. Thus, comrade Solovey-Razbojnik, you should do your homework first, and find out the facts and then rise questions. The Referendum of December 1, 1991 for the re-establishment of the historical state system of Subcarpathian Rus in the form of an autonomous Transcarpathia (special self-governed territory) as a part of Ukraine - 78% of the adult population voted, and for Hungarian ethnic district of Beregovo (Beregszaz)- 91% of population voted. Response from Kyiv was SKASUVATY!!!. However, the autonomy was O.K. for Krym. Why is this difference in treatment of citizens of Ukraine? The answer is clear. Behind Krym is the Russian power, however, behind the Rusyns of Transcarpathia is only a democratic process. Ach ta demokratija, what a nonsense!!! Let’s hope that Ukraine will somehow survive the next ten years with current nationalistic communists and a new generation of Ukrainian will have some common sense. I am not going to answer your latest question because your questions are intended just mislead. : : RE: To HANYA and SOLOVEY: You are talking about those Rusyns who became Ukrainians in the end of 19 and beginning of 20th. century during the time of Ivan-Franko. I’m talking about those Rusyns located from Karpatian Mountains west who were represented by Fr. Duchnovych. Well, the latecomers are always overly nationalistic and that’s why a number of them from Galicia and Bukovina served as famous guards in Nazi Concentration Camps. The Rusyns what I’m talking about are those who were fighting against the Nazi Germany in Czechoslovak army stationed in USSR. They had been fighting, starting from Bela Cerkva up to Prague, and sacrificing their life not for vilna Ukraina or brutal Stalin’s annexation of Podkarpatska Rus (Transcarpathia) to USSR, but for democratic Czechoslovakia. Unlike converted Rusyns into Ukrainians, the Rusyns in Podkarpatska Rus had experienced to live in a highly developed democratic country for 20 years. In addition, you are ignoring the following documents: a)US Department of State, Human Rights Reports for 1999-Ukraine; b)the European Centre for Minority Issues (ECMI), Inter-Ethnic Relations in Transcarpathian Ukraine 1999; c)T.Trier (ECMI) Focus on Transcarpathia, 1999; : The amount of grain bought from the western neighbors of Ukraine was 350 000 t. (see the Slovak press SME, Novy Cas or Pravda or you can make an inquire to authorities in Uzhorod or Lviv, but not in members of RUCH. Those gays won’t tell you the truth in the name of “vilna Ukraina”.). This amount is not too much, and it’s easier to deliver it to Transcarpathia or Lviv oblast from the west than from Kazakhstan. What is striking that Slovakia had produced so much that it could even contribute to this transaction, although 70% of its territory are mountains and general perception is that its agriculture is inefficient due to socialistic past. (The agriculture sector of Slovakia represents a major obstacle for the EU entry.) Than obvious question is, how bad is it in Ukraine? My suggestion – in order to make efficient reforms, one has to know exactly the facts. (see the recent IMF investigation). Patriotism is nice but not if it goes in expense of democracy and the rule of low. Take a look on Slovakia’s problems and the role of the former prime minister Vladimir Meciar or Slobodan Milosevic and Jugoslavia. The vast majority of former communists picked up fast the nationalistic slogans and flags, and they are ardent patriots. : Joe

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