Why conciliar government doesn't work

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Posted by the Anglicans demonstrate on August 29, 2005 at 19:05:03:

In Reply to: Re: Aren't we servants of God first? posted by Greg on August 25, 2005 at 01:50:00:

: The King is the administrative Head of the Church of England, and has been since the time of Henry VIII. Orthodox doctrine can only be determined by an ecumenical council of bishops, clergy and lay representatives. The civil authorities cannot dictate church doctrine in the Orthodox Church.

The fact that hereditary monarchs head up the Church of England makes it a vaguely ridiculous institution. The thing that's really tearing up the Anglican Communion though is exactly the conciliar type of decision making that you seem to admire so much. Church councils (made up of bishops, clergy and lay people, just like the Orthodox) in some countries are adopting policies that Anglicans in other countries can't live with. To me it's a strong argument in favour of Catholic-style centralisation. At least then someone can put his foot down and keep the church from veering off course.

I'm also a little puzzled by the Orthodox response to papal infallibilty. Haven't you noticed that it hasn't been invoked for 150 years? It's not as though the pope goes around issuing statements “ex cathedra” with every Angelus address. Popes are extremely careful in this regard and if you study church history you'll see that the dodgiest of past popes *never* attempted to make infallible statements. I'd like to think this illustrates Christ's promise “et portae inferi non preavalebunt adversum eam”, though I'm sure you'd disagree.

You seem to think that Catholics don't believe in ecumenical councils. What about Lateran I-IV, Lyons I-II, Vienne, Constance, Basel/Ferrara/Florence, Lateran V, Trent, Vatican I-II, in addition to the first seven that the Orthodox also acknowledge? The Church never makes really important decisions without them. No pope has ever been megalomaniacal enough to go it alone. I think your anxieties are misplaced.

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: : The King is the administrative Head of the Church of England, and has been since the time of Henry VIII. Orthodox doctrine can only be determined by an ecumenical council of bishops, clergy and lay representatives. The civil authorities cannot dictate church doctrine in the Orthodox Church. : The fact that hereditary monarchs head up the Church of England makes it a vaguely ridiculous institution. The thing that's really tearing up the Anglican Communion though is exactly the conciliar type of decision making that you seem to admire so much. Church councils (made up of bishops, clergy and lay people, just like the Orthodox) in some countries are adopting policies that Anglicans in other countries can't live with. To me it's a strong argument in favour of Catholic-style centralisation. At least then someone can put his foot down and keep the church from veering off course. : I'm also a little puzzled by the Orthodox response to papal infallibilty. Haven't you noticed that it hasn't been invoked for 150 years? It's not as though the pope goes around issuing statements “ex cathedra” with every Angelus address. Popes are extremely careful in this regard and if you study church history you'll see that the dodgiest of past popes *never* attempted to make infallible statements. I'd like to think this illustrates Christ's promise “et portae inferi non preavalebunt adversum eam”, though I'm sure you'd disagree. : You seem to think that Catholics don't believe in ecumenical councils. What about Lateran I-IV, Lyons I-II, Vienne, Constance, Basel/Ferrara/Florence, Lateran V, Trent, Vatican I-II, in addition to the first seven that the Orthodox also acknowledge? The Church never makes really important decisions without them. No pope has ever been megalomaniacal enough to go it alone. I think your anxieties are misplaced.

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