Re: Response

Music and Art at the Ukrainian Institute of America

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Posted by Petunia on August 26, 2005 at 16:56:04:

In Reply to: Re: Mark Seidner planning to leave Ukraine posted by chris on August 26, 2005 at 14:25:38:

: Our struggle for identity and for independence is not a parlor game, as some people seem to think.

I completely concur and this is where I challenge seidner. He treats it as paranoia, like a joke, because he does not seem to believe that it exists.

: ... and few are willing to admit that a large number of Jews collaborated with the Soviet government, what resulted in thousands and thousands of Ukrainians being murdered or exiled.

yep. this is true. just as Jews are not willing to admit to complicity with the Nazis in assisting to deport Jews. A higher percentage of Jews over 75% that were killed in the Netherlands than in any other occupied country was partially due to the following fact - "The second factor was the German device of setting up a Jewish Council, the Joodsche Raad, composed of a group of prominent middle-class Jewish leaders, for the purpose of conveying German commands efficiently to the Jewish population. The Jewish leaders reasoned among themselves, as they did in other occupied countries, that their role in keeping the channels of communication with their German oppressers open, and of maintaining law and order in the newly formed chaotic ghetto population of uprooted families, would help the bereft Jews more than harm them. In retrospect it is easy to see how wrong they were, as the Council quickly became the unwitting tool of the German destruction machinery, actually delivering the Jews directly to the German deportation trains."
http://sorrel.humboldt.edu/~rescuers/book/Strobos/Conditions.Holland.html

"Of the 140,00 people who registered themselves with the Germans as being Jewish, 107,000 were deported, of which only 5,500 came back. Approximately 24,000 went into hiding, of whom about 8,000 were caught."

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But this is their business and they will face their God when their time comes. I think that
Ukrainians need to own up to historical realities regardless if others chose not to do so. By flying in the face of truth we do lose our own credibity and clarity of focus.

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: : Our struggle for identity and for independence is not a parlor game, as some people seem to think. : I completely concur and this is where I challenge seidner. He treats it as paranoia, like a joke, because he does not seem to believe that it exists. : : ... and few are willing to admit that a large number of Jews collaborated with the Soviet government, what resulted in thousands and thousands of Ukrainians being murdered or exiled. : yep. this is true. just as Jews are not willing to admit to complicity with the Nazis in assisting to deport Jews. A higher percentage of Jews over 75% that were killed in the Netherlands than in any other occupied country was partially due to the following fact - "The second factor was the German device of setting up a Jewish Council, the Joodsche Raad, composed of a group of prominent middle-class Jewish leaders, for the purpose of conveying German commands efficiently to the Jewish population. The Jewish leaders reasoned among themselves, as they did in other occupied countries, that their role in keeping the channels of communication with their German oppressers open, and of maintaining law and order in the newly formed chaotic ghetto population of uprooted families, would help the bereft Jews more than harm them. In retrospect it is easy to see how wrong they were, as the Council quickly became the unwitting tool of the German destruction machinery, actually delivering the Jews directly to the German deportation trains." : http://sorrel.humboldt.edu/~rescuers/book/Strobos/Conditions.Holland.html : "Of the 140,00 people who registered themselves with the Germans as being Jewish, 107,000 were deported, of which only 5,500 came back. Approximately 24,000 went into hiding, of whom about 8,000 were caught." : -------- : But this is their business and they will face their God when their time comes. I think that : Ukrainians need to own up to historical realities regardless if others chose not to do so. By flying in the face of truth we do lose our own credibity and clarity of focus.

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