Analysis of analysis

Borys Kosarev: Modernist Kharkiv, 1915-1931 at The Ukrainian Museum thru May 2, 2012

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Posted by Yanko on August 29, 2000 at 22:54:00:

In Reply to: Re: Language/Schools. SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU, BOHDAN. posted by Bohdan Oryshkevich on August 29, 2000 at 21:11:34:

: I am an American who has spent a total of ten days in Ukraine in 1971.

Yet you talk as if you were an expert. I wonder why?

: Can you name one contemporary writer who genuinely speaks towards the real needs of the educated Ukrainian?

Sure.

: Ukrainians unlike Russians are terribly isolationist.

Bullshit. Of known origin.

: There is an information vacuum in Ukraine.

A more descriptive term, I believe, would be "information holodomor".

: So Ukrainian culture is always second rate or at least behind the times.

Bulshit. Of suspected origin.

: But if it is not generally available

That has nothing to do with culture. That is politics.

: and if there are no movies, no plays, and no high quality endemic television in Ukrainian one cannot be proud of it.

The implication may be correct, but the premise is false.

: Clearly Ukrainians seem not to mind to get their essential information in Russian.

Clearly you seem to have very little idea of what is going on in Ukraine.

: I can judge the Diaspora only.

Precisely. Yet it looks like you forget about this all too often.

: I do not see that they respect the Ukrainian language any more than those in Ukraine.

Could not agree more. I would put the "<" sign here instead of your cautious "=<".

: I can think of no worse role model for Ukraine than the Cossacks.

And I can think of no better one. One of us must be wrong. Your turn to give some arguments.

: Ukraine became independent too soon and with too little sacrifice leaving the former leaders in power who as many have pointed out have no deep knowledge or roots in Ukraine or its culture.

Wrong. Not too soon, and certainly with not too little sacrifice. Too disorganised, poorly prepared -- true. But don't forget that many capable of becoming a real elite were simply killed. The independence movement was headed by "humanitarians", like Khmara, Drach etc., whose brain is just big enough for slogans, but not for much more.

: I was conversant with the situation in Ukraine so I am not totally disappointed. I never saw independence especially under the present circumstances as a panacea.

It certainly is a prerequisite, though.

: Only time will tell.

: I am providing analysis which I try to make as objective as possible.

Again, why do you think your analysis is worth anything if you haven't been in Ukraine for 30 years? To me it sounds like diagnosing over the phone.

: Chanting Slava Ykrainy will not solve Ukraine's problems. It is a simple waste of time. Ukrainians have to learn that simple lesson first.

I believe Ukrainians already have, for the most part. And Ukes dont't really need to.

Yanko

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: : I am an American who has spent a total of ten days in Ukraine in 1971. : Yet you talk as if you were an expert. I wonder why? : : Can you name one contemporary writer who genuinely speaks towards the real needs of the educated Ukrainian? : <a href="http://vitaly.rivne.com/andrukhovych/index.htm"> Sure. </a> : : Ukrainians unlike Russians are terribly isolationist. : Bullshit. Of known origin. : : There is an information vacuum in Ukraine. : A more descriptive term, I believe, would be "information holodomor". : : So Ukrainian culture is always second rate or at least behind the times. : Bulshit. Of suspected origin. : : But if it is not generally available : That has nothing to do with culture. That is politics. : : and if there are no movies, no plays, and no high quality endemic television in Ukrainian one cannot be proud of it. : The implication may be correct, but the premise is false. : : Clearly Ukrainians seem not to mind to get their essential information in Russian. : Clearly you seem to have very little idea of what is going on in Ukraine. : : I can judge the Diaspora only. : Precisely. Yet it looks like you forget about this all too often. : : I do not see that they respect the Ukrainian language any more than those in Ukraine. : Could not agree more. I would put the "<" sign here instead of your cautious "=<". : : : I can think of no worse role model for Ukraine than the Cossacks. : And I can think of no better one. One of us must be wrong. Your turn to give some arguments. : : Ukraine became independent too soon and with too little sacrifice leaving the former leaders in power who as many have pointed out have no deep knowledge or roots in Ukraine or its culture. : Wrong. Not too soon, and certainly with not too little sacrifice. Too disorganised, poorly prepared -- true. But don't forget that many capable of becoming a real elite were simply killed. The independence movement was headed by "humanitarians", like Khmara, Drach etc., whose brain is just big enough for slogans, but not for much more. : : I was conversant with the situation in Ukraine so I am not totally disappointed. I never saw independence especially under the present circumstances as a panacea. : It certainly is a prerequisite, though. : : Only time will tell. : : I am providing analysis which I try to make as objective as possible. : Again, why do you think your analysis is worth anything if you haven't been in Ukraine for 30 years? To me it sounds like diagnosing over the phone. : : Chanting Slava Ykrainy will not solve Ukraine's problems. It is a simple waste of time. Ukrainians have to learn that simple lesson first. : I believe Ukrainians already have, for the most part. And Ukes dont't really need to. : Yanko

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