Posted by Joe on July 31, 2000 at 02:03:12:
In Reply to: Re: Djakuju mamko, za ukrajinske z'ytja! posted by Ihor on July 29, 2000 at 23:24:32:
: : To IHOR from JOE
Ihor: I do not intend to dig out those books, for there are anti-Semites, racists and so on in every nation of the world (Except Jews perhaps in case of anti-Semitism).
RE: Of course there were among Rusyns some anti-Semites but, fortunately, it never achieved the degree as it is known in other countries, as for instance Russia, Poland, Slovakia or Ukraine. The problem was that, in Subcarpathia, Rusyns did not try to defend their Jewish fellow citizens similarly as people of Denmark. But no other European country did either. With some exceptions, majority of Rusyns did not know about the death camps (Auschwitz, Majdanek etc.). They did not know even about Thalerhoff, a forerunner of Hitler’s concentration camp near Graz (Austria). There are no precise statistics, but supposedly about 30 000 Rusyns (including 800 priests, the whole families, grant parents, children) were interned between 1914 –1918. During those years 17 000 died and the rest after the war.
Since you do not want to read those books, perhaps, you can read the following three paragraphs:
For example, Joachim Schoenfeld in his Shtetl Memoirs (1985) writes fondly of his youthful trips into the Carpathians: The Hutzuls (Ruthenian mountaineers) who were in the mountains for the entire summer tending their sheep in the poloninas ([upland] pastures) were very hospitable people, and anyone who came up to them was always welcome to find shelter in their coliba [hut], to sleep on fresh hay alongside the watra (watchfire). Whoever came to their hut was also invited to share in their meal, which consisted of mamaliga (corn bread cooked in salted water to a hard consistency) with bryndza (sheep cheese) and milk. They didn't ask for payment but were more than happy if they were rewarded with pipe tobacco, which they couldn't afford to buy. . . . The evenings were spent with the Hutzuls, listening to their tales about Dobosh (a kind of Robin Hood), and the miracles performed by the svaty Srulko, the Saint Israel, i.e. the Bal Shem Tov, whom even Dobosh revered and admired. (pp. 130-131)
This passage, typical of descriptions of pre-World War I Jewish-Rusyn relations, is indicative of a high degree of cultural cross-fertilization (linguistic and even religious) and generally paints a portrait two peoples in harmonious symbiosis. Even the work of Gross and Cohen, which is particularly strident in its accusations against the Rusyns, refers to Jewish and Rusyn children playing together as well as the use by Rusyns of Jewish Rabbinical courts and Jewish midwives.
.... ....
Following the dismemberment of Czechoslovakia forced by the Nazis in October 1938, the Ukrainophiles set up (initially with the assistance of the Russophiles) the first autonomous government in Subcarpathian Rus', later calling it Carpatho- Ukraine. These developments from the new capital of Chust were alarming to the Jewish community. One memoir records that Jews were afraid to travel after hours, since "non-Jews [were] going about in the streets like drunkards, screaming dire threats against Jews and their businesses." The Nazis took advantage of their own popularity, in particular among the Ukrainians active in the region, and sponsored an anti-Semitic campaign directed at rousing the Rusyns against their Jewish neighbors. More ominously, Ukrainians in Chust are said to have openly prepared "blacklists" of wealthy Jews, an activity which was consistent with the Nazi pattern of "aryanization," or confiscation of Jewish property. Although aryanization was typically a first stage in what was to become the murder process, Carpatho-Ukraine was too short-lived to be further involved. Hungarian troops crossed the border and occupied the entire region in March 1939, after which it was renamed Carpathia (Hungarian: Karpatalja) .
: See the number of immigrants from the West Ukraine who provided misleading and deceptive information to the US immigration authorities about their participation as guards in Nazi concentration camps. There is no Rusyn among them from Subcarpathia!
Ihor: Joe, you have no facts, and without them I don't want to discuss this matter with a blinded lunatic like you are, sorry if it's a bit harsh.
RE: A blinded lunatic is you because you do not want to know even about those Nazi guards who were mentioned on “ Brama Press Comment Board”. The US Department of Justice identified over 50 (it is between 50 and 57, I am not sure about exact number) from former USSR, most of them are from Ukraine, some from Baltic Republic. You can get this information from The US Justice Department, if you are not lunatic.
: As previously pointed out, these gays are great followers of Academician Lysenko.
Ihor: Here you meant guys, right?
RE: No, I mean gays in classical sense. You do not remember my story from Lvov. Here it is “ As a matter of fact, I pinned the trident on my chest during my visit of Lviv and the RUCH guys glancing it became keenly exuberant, alive and highly spirited within a few seconds. Simply, they turned into gays in absence of any possibility for sexual activities. “ Exactly the same happened when I met Myshanych and Mushinka. I do not show myself to them without the trident on my chest. Well, I can understand it that gay can have only one meaning in our over-sexualized world.
Ihor: I know that surely it's four language policy isn't a major factor in it's development. Take France, for example. Do they have the same policy regarding Bretonians?
RE: Wrong example. With one language policy, namely German, the French speaking Swiss would be part of France and not Switzerland. The language + other incentives (self-governing, sound economical policy, week central government, etc.).