Re: Can an American be Ukrainian or new vs old

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: : : : : : : TO DONNA: : : : I sincerely doubt that national identity can rest on PIEROHY and PYSANKY. Customs and stories do not tell you what Ukraine had to live through since you left. Ukraine that you know does not exist. It is not that half-mythical "paradise" from Shevchenko's poetry, it is a struggeling society only looking for its identity, one which will be acceptable for all its people. : : : You write that you are the first generation emigrant who was forced by the parents to go to a Saturday school. Did your friends from your "normal" American school laugh at you because you study this "primitive" language? No? Mine, in Kyiv, did. : : : I have a few more questions to you. Don't you write in Ukrainian only because you do not have a Ukrainian keyboard, or is there any other reason? Your husband does not speak Ukrainian, OK, but does he forbid YOU speak Ukrainian to YOUR children? : : : TO JERRY: : : : It's nice to see somebody who fled Soviet tyrany to teach those who stayed, were returned or did not have an opportunity to leave. Besides, not all of the OLD emigrants left because of tyrany. Those who went at the beginning of the century emigrated for pure economic reasons. Let us be more precise at least in facts that we all know. : : : I also liked this sentence that new emigrants do not know what it means to be be free in their own country , that you, old emigrants had to find in foreign countries. Has it ever occurrred to you that it is easier to be free in a foreign country than in your own? It is too easy to be Ukrainian in America or in Kanada, or in any other free democratic country. Did you try to be Ukrainian in Ukraine? To give up your American passport, to live in a house without hot water, to sell socks in the open air market because this is the only source of income for your family? : : : You never did that and you will never do that. How can you judge those who lived through all that without even knowing what it is? : : : And how on earth do you get rid of all those "dishonest people and politicians"? You do not vote for them? They do not need your vote they can buy it or fake it and steal whatever is worth stealing and with a help of diaspora lawyers and financiaries get it to the West. Or maybe you do not know those "good Ukrainians" from the West who helped comarade Kravchuk or comrade Kuchma or dozens of other comrades to steal? How can you explain what they have done and continue to do? Did they learn it in a Saturday school or from their parents or in a church, which I am sure they visit regularly, as good Ukrainians? : : : Those who leave Ukraine now just want to be left alone. What do want those who help to robber the country, who's PYSANKY and PIEROHY they proudly celebrate? : : : : : : : : : : I was born in Poland and emigrated to Chicago when I was 3. Only the Ukrainian language was allowed to be spoken in the house, even amongst my sisters and I. We all rebelled until we were allowed to understand the importance of heritage as we got older. I appreciate all the years I was "forced" to go to Ukrainian school on Saturdays while my friends went to birthday parties and watched cartoons. Unfortunately the language will not be passed on in our family. My husband is "American" and we do not live near a Ukrainian community in California. However my children are no less Ukrainian because they are brought up with customs and stories, pierohy and pysanki. Becasue of their upbringing, they will have the benefit of living in a country -USA- that allows them to be anything they wish to be yet have the blood and soul of strong Ukrainian women like their ancestors. What more can one ask for? : : Marusia, When we or others left,there was no Ukraine,if there was but no body recognased as acountry. Only in their hearts was a Ukraine.You think it was so easy for the old emigrants or as matter fact even for the new ones in foreign country.Three quarter(75%) of people that left so called Ukraine had very little education.You people have knowledge whats going on in Ukraine and the WORLD. I think that the higher education is being used by only small group and the rest of the people just watches them get rich.What do you think people do in free countries if they"WANT"something done "THEY STAND UP FOR THEIR RIGHTS"thats how it is accomplished.People power is the only way out, now or never.Complaints,feeling sorry wont do dam thing. : : : : WHAT MORE CAN WE ASK FOR? Here what I think,that the new emigrants continue to support all that what the old emigration build up in the of Ukraine.But I have doubts about the new emigrants. They don't emigrate for the same reason that "WE" the old emigration did.We the old emigrants, left the country,emigrated due to persecutions and to save ourselfs from the Soviet tyrany.The new emigrants, emigrate due to economical reasons. As far as I see they don't try to keep up the Ukrainian tradition the same way the old emigration did.After all they were born under the Soviet Union rule,and believe they had better then in free Ukraine.They don't know much about freedom and don't know what it means to be free in their own country,that we the old emigrants had to find in foreign countries.They pay high price for the "VISAS"in $(Dollars) just to earn that same money in a year or two.But who gets the money for the visas?The same person will be rich in no time,and make more people leave the country for economical reason. They could have lived in Ukraine with that money for a while,better then they live in foreign country.That money would do more benefit to the Ukraine and the people then in someone elses pocket.Most of the new emigrants don't feel the same way about Ukraine as the old ones did and still do.They:most of the new emigrants do not see anything wrong by talking in Russian as half or more of the Ukrainian population still does too. Who they expect to build better free country, the few dollars they send their families so more of them can and will emigrate.The poor poverty stricken government can not and will not build better free country, only united suporable people accomplish that in time.By getting rid of dishonest people and politicians that are rubbing country to poverty and poor depressed,desolationed people of Ukraine.Country is build by honest caring and hard working people that see the brighter future.At times I don't understand all of this,that such"RICH AND HIGHLY EDUCATED POPULATION"in country likeUKRAINE"all I hear and read only bad things:Debt,lack oil,lack energy, lack of money for pensions for workers,teachers and so on and on.Communist,Russian,language, religion,minorities.Are there any Ukrainians that speak up on the behalf of their nationality, language,religion or they are so carried away by their own welfare only.I know there are those that speak up for the good of the country and the people,but they are the minority.All I wish just to see and read about something good and pleasant that Ukraine and the UKrainians accomplished something good for the countries future. : : : : : : : Marusia: Mess' up,my answer is on top of my last post. Sorry I don't have a computer and didn't pay attention.

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