Posted by Joe on July 03, 2000 at 12:42:32:
In Reply to: Re: Yanko's statement and question to Moshe? posted by Moshe Dayan on July 01, 2000 at 13:25:50:
: :: To MOSHE from JOE
: M:It looks that you like to mix all things together.
: RE: What exactly are those "all things"?
M:For example, you tell me what Taras said, or suddenly reminds me about Bohdan Khmelnytsky, or tells me what Yanko said.
RE::This is nonsense. I guess that you've got a problem to discriminate yourself from Yanko.
M: Look at your statement which I'm pasting right now from your message (you posted it on June 29): "As a Ukrainian, you should keep in mind the tradition of pogroms that started with Ukrainian Cossack Leader Bogdan Khmelnicky and try to deal with it".
R:: Take a look MOSHE how you MISREPRESENTED what I addressed To YANKO:
"Posted by Joe on June 29, 2000 at 05:17:39:
Yanko:"Anyway, I hear Hitler had some Jewish blood in him, so according to your perverse logic Jews now should feel guilty for Hitler, oder?"
[Joe]: Yanko, you just convinced me with this sentence that anti-semitism in Veliky Berezny, your home town, was real already in 1922. I guess, it increased since that time because of nationalistic influence of Ukrainians from Galicia. As a Ukrainian, you should keep in mind the tradition of pogroms that started with Ukrainian Cossack Leader Bogdan Khmelnicky and try to deal with it. This is real, the hearsay is pathology only of your mind."
RE: ARE YOU YANKO OR MOSHE?
M: Here I can tell you that you are more responsible for deeds of Lazar Kaganovich than I am about Khmelnytsky.
RE: Why am I responsible for deeds of Lazar Kaganovich more than you are? You are Moshe, aren't you? Furthermore, you and your ancestors shared with Lazar Kaganovich the same country. I did not.
M: Why did you start discussion about pogroms is also total mystery to me.
RE: There is no mystery but your ignorance. Tradition of intolerance toward Jews and its current level is a good indicator to judge the level of intolerance towards other minorities as well.
M: What is interesting that every anti-Ukrainian will tell you about Khmelnytsky and you are among them.
RE: I guess, according your thinking, Germans who have negative attitude towards Hitler are anti-Germans and the former PM (Chancellor of Bundesrepublik) W. Brandt is among them. It is very clear that your opinion is absolutely irrelevant and your thinking represents a typical product of the Bolshevik mentality reflected in this most telling slogan "WHO IS NOT WITH US IS AGAINST US!" This what created the GULAG and HOLODOMOR.
M:You Keep in mind, that I'm not a simple Moshe, riff-raff guy, I am MOSHE DAYAN and I don't like to deal with OBS (odna babka skazala) questions.
RE: I see, you are that kind of Moshe who doesn't care for GULAG if it in the name of SAMOSTIJNA UKRAINA.
M: Nationalistic influence - a pogrom by Cossacks? Are you serious, Joe?
RE:: Isn't Bogdan Khmelnicky considered the leader of Ukrainian (nationalistic) uprising? Was he a Russian? Ah, I see, he was a Russian and that's why Ukraine became part of Russia lasting for 350 years.
M: So, why are you telling me that pogroms started with Khmelnytsky?
RE: Because we talked about Ukraine and not other countries.
M: It's not a question, it's my opinion about your credentials as a "pogrom" expert.
RE: Regarding your opinion see above.
M: If you want to know, Joe, many Ukrainians in Galicia called themselves Rusyns not so long ago.
RE: Yes I do know it very well. And I hope that Rusyns in Subcarpathia can remain as they are (Rusyns), and they won't be called Ukrainians only because in Galicia they call themselves Ukrainians.
M:You are very anti-Ukrainian.
RE: This is the basic human right issue whether one considers himself or herself Rusyn or Ukrainian. This has nothing to do with "anti-Ukrainianism", whatsoever.
M: I didn't meet such Rusyns so far. How many of you have the same feelings?
RE: Be patient and you will meet more of them. Total number of Rusyns is approximately 1.6 million and they have various feelings as any other individuals.
:
: And now, this is specially for you, Joe:
: RE: I am deeply touched by your graciousness.
:
M: "… A tretiy, rozpusniak
: : Vylliav babi kapusniak."
Were you the third one, Joe?
RE: You know better. However, I heard another version of this story. During a pogrom of a village inhabited by Rusyns and Jews, a Cossack with his horse run into a yard and "vylliav babi kapustniak."
This Cossack was from Zaporizzia and, unlike Taras Bulba, he spoke Ukrainian.
M:Are you still about pogroms? Rusyns were also victims?
RE: Yes. Those who were "GREKOKATOLYKY". You have to catch up in your studies of Bogdan Khmelnicky.
M: "…Many of those commissars with well rounded bellies are still alive and became refugees in US, Israel and other contries. Moreover, they brought all of their families with them and tell everybody they. How do you like that?"
RE: I have no problem to talk about it, though I do not like at all when innocent people suffer, irrespective of their ethnicity. However, I would like to know, why are you lamenting here, and why aren't you doing something about it? Simon Wisenthal was capable to collect evidence and successfully challenge a number of Nazi criminals in the court of law. I am convinced that having clear-cut evidence of crimes against humanity, these "commissars" would be prosecuted. But keep in mind, allegations have to be tested in the court of law.
M:Do you work for Simon Wisental center?
RE: Unfortunately, not but this Institution made our world more civilized.
Good luck. Moshe Dayan.
Shalom, Joe.