Re: Rabotiaga & Rabochiy (holding Sickle & Hammer together)

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: Sorry, rabotiaga, I tried to respond to you in terms that you could understand. If you think my answer is 'lame', just look at your original 'question'. Anyway, I am sure that every argument that goes to defend you alleged Ukrainian fatherland will inevitably be labeled as 'lame' in your mind. : Most of your lengthy arguments still fail to answer my main point: you can't blame 'yellow and blue' colors of the economic decline of Ukraine. Moreover, economic declines of all CIS members show very well what common factor we should blame first. All of those countries were covered by the 'red rag'. If those countries were left with the beautiful modern economies we would never see any serious 'declines' and would see them enjoying the level of life of, say, Finland. After all, Finland economy was also 90% tied up with the USSR. You also didn't tell us, how come, your Great Russia still begs for 'humanitarian' food supplies. : If you claim some 'economic revival' of Russia, it is funny that you ignore 'economic revival' of Ukraine. Simply read the latest news and stop making some idiotic statements that Kiev's infrastructure is comparable with Voronezh's. Btw, I just read some article about Voronezh in some Russian journal. Those people still don't have electricity on their streets. : Overall, I can't change that Russian patriotism of yours. You show a huge bias when it comes to Russia, and you show an opposite bias when it comes to Ukraine. Too bad you are not honest enough to go to Russia yourself. : : <i> : : What a lame answer! Basically your answer is "don't worry,dude, it sux everywhere". : : Maybe, but why in Ukraine? I remember, before the referendum 10 years : : ago all newspapers had different tables and graphs comparing : : gross production/population figures of all the former USSR republics. : : Looked like Ukraine was one of the best there, if not THE best. : : And actually, shortly after the independence was proclaimed, when the ties with Russia : : were not broken yet, but money did not go to the center anymore, everybody : : at my plant, and most of the plants that I know of, got a substantial increase in salary, almost 100% increase. : : Plus, almost every month we started receiving bonus checks for substantial amounts of money. : : Production started to expand, we were hiring new people. : : I remember myself thinking "Wow, this independence is great. for the first time in my life them politicians did something good". : : Not all regions benefited from that 'cause when salaries grew, prices increased (not too much,though, 5-10%). : : I remember friend of mine went to Karpaty for vacation then and he : : brought a Lvov-based and Kiev-based newspapers which had articles in it saying : : smth. like "this is not fair", " workers are making too much", "give us their money for schools", and so on, : : all with the nationalistic overtones like "zaprodantsi ta moskali duzhe bagato zarobliajut'". : : So what does Kravchuk do next (apparently under the pressure from Western Ukraine) ? : : Issues an order according to which all contracts have to be reviewed by the government commitie. : : Basically what that commitie has said is - "you can try and sell your stuff in Europe, : : but don't sell to Russia." Well, actually, some of the production was sold in Europe : : successfully, but at the low prices; and due to a complicated barter-schemes that : : enabled a lot of Ukrainian plants to pay for the energy with their products, that : : europe deal did not work out. Actually, I think, government allowed to sell on a limited basis our : : products to Russia again, but it was too late - Russian counterparts already found : : a substitute supplier (from Bulgaria, I think). : : So, under the weight of all those problems, some departments and then the whole plant (and many others) got closed. : : Nobody in the East or West benefited from that, but, of course, we took the biggest hit. : : Typical "ne z'im tak ponadkusuju" stuff. : : Your answer is pretty lame ("v susida pogano, ce naigolovnishe"), although, I couldn't count on much more coming from you. : : Rabochij was right, you guys are hopeless. : : Most postings here deal with the issues of language, culture, history and so on, and : : nobody ever mentiones how it all is tied together (in reality it is) with the real pathetic : : situation that "samostijnist'" (note - I am not saying "independence", "samostijnist'" - : : is a whole "close all ties with Russia, make everybody speak Ukrainian, Russian mafia rules Ukraine, Taras Bul'ba -chempion" crap) : : brought to Ukraine. This has already proven to be a disaster maybe worth than any of the "bad stuff" that commies : : had done, and the free fall continues... : : P.S. Couple of days ago on one of the TV Channels here (the ones that deal with the market situation, give stock quotes : : throughout the day, etc) they had a report on Russian economy that was pretty positive. I am very sceptical, : : but they did say that Russian economy shows signs of revival that was fueled at first by the increased prices : : on the natural gas and oil on the world market, but now some of that money went into the production sector and : : the production has been steadily on the increase since the crisis they've had. : : As you probably know, the official level of life in Ukraine is lower than that reported by Russian stats shortly : : after the crisis. Even major Ukrainian cities like Kiev are nowhere near the overall life level and infrastructure : : than that of Moscow, St. Petersburg, Vladivostok or even Voronezh. Wanna blame it all on Russian Mafia? Well, then, : : I guess it is doing a hell of a job. : : </i>

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