Re: Rabotiaga & Rabochiy (holding Sickle & Hammer together)

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: : : Check this out:<b>When I had a red rag over my head, everything seemed to be OK. : : : Yes, there were annoying commies around, but nobody bugged you too much. : : : When it got replaced by yelow-and-blue rag with the fork everything started to suck. : : : And on top of it, you suddenly learn, that you are not even a "real" ukrainian : : : if you don't hate everything that you were brought up with. : : : Now, you are saying I was brought up on the "false values". Let it be so (even though I don't : : : think respect for hard working people is a "false value", or that Ukrainian culture : : : is superior to Russian), but I think you understand the frustration people like me start to feel." : : : </b> : : : Explain this, if you are so smart. : : : </i> : : Well, dear "Rabotiaga", please read this: <B>I don't know why you lay all the blame on some "yellow-blue rag". You do not explain this to us very well. You could have some remote chance of being true if the people like you, who are now under the "red and a little green" and "red-white-blue" rags, would not be bitching and complaining as bitterly as you do now. The life of your spiritual brethren under those "rags" is often far less shiny. Many of them receive "humanitarian aid" from their "potential" NATO enemies in order not to starve. Those under the "read and a little green" are also having good old Soviet shops, full of dirt and bad smell, where they have to line up for some bread and milk. I am sure you miss them in your Canada.</b> : : Ta-ta. : <i> : What a lame answer! Basically your answer is "don't worry,dude, it sux everywhere". : Maybe, but why in Ukraine? I remember, before the referendum 10 years : ago all newspapers had different tables and graphs comparing : gross production/population figures of all the former USSR republics. : Looked like Ukraine was one of the best there, if not THE best. : And actually, shortly after the independence was proclaimed, when the ties with Russia : were not broken yet, but money did not go to the center anymore, everybody : at my plant, and most of the plants that I know of, got a substantial increase in salary, almost 100% increase. : Plus, almost every month we started receiving bonus checks for substantial amounts of money. : Production started to expand, we were hiring new people. : I remember myself thinking "Wow, this independence is great. for the first time in my life them politicians did something good". : Not all regions benefited from that 'cause when salaries grew, prices increased (not too much,though, 5-10%). : I remember friend of mine went to Karpaty for vacation then and he : brought a Lvov-based and Kiev-based newspapers which had articles in it saying : smth. like "this is not fair", " workers are making too much", "give us their money for schools", and so on, : all with the nationalistic overtones like "zaprodantsi ta moskali duzhe bagato zarobliajut'". : So what does Kravchuk do next (apparently under the pressure from Western Ukraine) ? : Issues an order according to which all contracts have to be reviewed by the government commitie. : Basically what that commitie has said is - "you can try and sell your stuff in Europe, : but don't sell to Russia." Well, actually, some of the production was sold in Europe : successfully, but at the low prices; and due to a complicated barter-schemes that : enabled a lot of Ukrainian plants to pay for the energy with their products, that : europe deal did not work out. Actually, I think, government allowed to sell on a limited basis our : products to Russia again, but it was too late - Russian counterparts already found : a substitute supplier (from Bulgaria, I think). : So, under the weight of all those problems, some departments and then the whole plant (and many others) got closed. : Nobody in the East or West benefited from that, but, of course, we took the biggest hit. : Typical "ne z'im tak ponadkusuju" stuff. : Your answer is pretty lame ("v susida pogano, ce naigolovnishe"), although, I couldn't count on much more coming from you. : Rabochij was right, you guys are hopeless. : Most postings here deal with the issues of language, culture, history and so on, and : nobody ever mentiones how it all is tied together (in reality it is) with the real pathetic : situation that "samostijnist'" (note - I am not saying "independence", "samostijnist'" - : is a whole "close all ties with Russia, make everybody speak Ukrainian, Russian mafia rules Ukraine, Taras Bul'ba -chempion" crap) : brought to Ukraine. This has already proven to be a disaster maybe worth than any of the "bad stuff" that commies : had done, and the free fall continues... : P.S. Couple of days ago on one of the TV Channels here (the ones that deal with the market situation, give stock quotes : throughout the day, etc) they had a report on Russian economy that was pretty positive. I am very sceptical, : but they did say that Russian economy shows signs of revival that was fueled at first by the increased prices : on the natural gas and oil on the world market, but now some of that money went into the production sector and : the production has been steadily on the increase since the crisis they've had. : As you probably know, the official level of life in Ukraine is lower than that reported by Russian stats shortly : after the crisis. Even major Ukrainian cities like Kiev are nowhere near the overall life level and infrastructure : than that of Moscow, St. Petersburg, Vladivostok or even Voronezh. Wanna blame it all on Russian Mafia? Well, then, : I guess it is doing a hell of a job. : </i>

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