[aaus-list] "Cult of corruption"... Why does this happeninAmerica? What should Ukraine learn from this?

[Kravchuk, Bob]

Max:
 
You are wrong. Bush is not guilty of any impeachable offense that any reasonably just society would condemn him for.  Free societies do not routinely impeach leaders over differences in policy. And, yes, 230 years is emphatically not a ling time. Open societies are "learning systems;" that is, they continuously reinvent and renew themselves.
 
You should not be so quick to condemn what you do not understand. You are permitting your political views to cloud your analytical judgment.
 
-Robert Kravchuk

________________________________

From: aaus-list-bounces at ukrainianstudies.org on behalf of Max Pyziur
Sent: Sun 10/19/2008 9:37 AM
To: aaus-list at ukrainianstudies.org
Cc: ukrainians
Subject: RE: [aaus-list] "Cult of corruption"... Why does this happeninAmerica? What should Ukraine learn from this?



On Thu, 16 Oct 2008, Kravchuk, Bob wrote:

> Dear Vadim:
>
> This happens in America beacuse the Hobbesian decsription of the human
> condition is the same worldwide. That is,  there are scoundrels
> everywhere, and they need to be pursued, and locked away. The lesson
> that Ukraine will learn from this is that free societies like America's
> will root out this cancer. Ukrainian political institutions are still
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Then why hasn't George Bush been impeached? And why haven't any of the
members of his administration been tried for treason?

It's clearly false to assume that "free societies" deterministically are
just. In the United States you had the slaves freed in the mid-19th
century, yet it took at least another hundred years before there was
any clear action against Jim Crow legislation. And then how
long before it was implemented? And with what consequences?

Look at what happened to several hundred thousand  west coast
Japanese-Americans after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. All property
- as in homes and land - was confiscated and never returned, and people
were sent to concentration camps. The only restitution that they received
was a judgement in the early 1980s to distribute ~$22k per person to
settle any and all claims.

Much as there has been no restitution for injustices such as the
deportations to Central Asia and appropriations of property in the
mid-1940s to Ukrainians and other peoples, among other things, there have
been no reparations to the descendants of African-American slaves. There
is at least one organization working in this direction: National Coalition
Of Blacks for Reparations in America - http://www.ncobra.org/mission.htm

At least, the Ostarbeiters, including several hundred thousand Ukrainians,
got something - $2-3 thousand per head - from the governments of Germany
and Austria, courtesy of lawsuit that was initiated in the United States.


> too nascent to do so effectively.

I guess 230 years is still a little young.

> -Robert Kravchuk

Max Pyziur
pyz at brama.com



> ________________________________
>
> From: aaus-list-bounces at ukrainianstudies.org on behalf of Vadim
> Sent: Tue 10/14/2008 11:22 PM
> To: aaus; ukrainians
> Subject: [aaus-list] "Cult of corruption"... Why does this happen inAmerica? What should Ukraine learn from this?
>
>
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/14/oil.whistleblower/index.html
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