Posted by Nazario on September 03, 2002 at 00:20:15:
In Reply to: Re: to Jeff ([g] & [h]) posted by Jeff on August 30, 2002 at 06:57:20:
Hola de nuevo:
Disculpa por mi retraso con mi respuesta: he sido preocupado mucho en mi trabajo. Pero he de hacer algo sobre el tema del fonema ruso (y bielaruso), que se llama Ã. Pero primeramente, quiero agradecerte por tu proposición del libro “Com licença”. Voy a tratar buscarlo, aunque entiendo que sí, sea difícil encontrarlo aquí. Mientras tanto, yo quisiera asegurarte que no vivo en bosque espeso con osos sino en la ciudad tercera en Rusia cuya población es más de 2 millones de habitantes (si se cuenta con los que viven y trabajan aquí ilegalmente). Novosibirsk se llama a menudo la Capital de Siberia. Quiero añadir que vivo en el barrio Akademgorodok (Villa de científicos), que saben muy bien entre los científicos de todo el mundo.
Pues bien, voy a usar inglés porque pienso que usando español no es bien en este bulletin board.
I did not actually say that Belarusan language does have TWO phonemes Ã. So I agree that Belarusan à (as Russian Ã) has two allophonic pronunciations, but NOT two different phonemes. I admit that Mr. Dal’ has made a lot for the Russian culture in general. But he lived in the 19th century; we have another Russian now. There are a lot of Russian people who still pronounce noun “Áîã” and interjection “aãà” using sound [h]. It is admissible now. But I assure you that the tend is to using sound [g]. I think that more than 2/3 of Russians pronounce “Áîã” with [g]. (I am one of them). But still the majority of Russians pronounce interjection “aãà” with [h]. (I am one of them). I’ve heard several times Russian pronounce “àãà” with [g], but such pronunciation has not been good for Russian audience yet, and tells us that the speaker is not a well-educated person. As far as I know words “Ãîñïîäü”, “ãîñóäàðü”, “áëàãî” as well as their derivatives were pronounced with [h] before the 20s of the 20th century. I’d like to tell more about alterations in Russian phonetics, but I don’t have enough time for it now. Maybe I’ll do that later.
OK, Jeff, you’ve asked me about SURZHYK (“ñóðæèê” in Ukrainian and Russian). I guess there are a lot of people living in Eastern Ukraine could answer you much better than I do. The word “Surzhyk” is an abbreviated form of Ukrainian noun “ñóðî´àò” (or Russian form “ñóððîãàò”), which correspond with English word “surrogate”. It is a slang or jargon (or so called spoken language) of great number of ethnic Ukrainians from Eastern Ukraine. You may know that Ukrainian phonetics is different from Russian one. So in brief words I would say that Surzhyk is a blend of mostly Ukrainian phonetics and mostly Russian vocabulary. (I am not an expert in Surzhyk, though). Many people who use Surzhyk every day are not able to speak either correct Ukrainian or correct Russian. I am in great doubt that they could speak :-( Oxford English :-). But, on the other hand, Surzhyk has its own charm; but only those who know other languages, are able to appreciate Surzhyk’s charm. Of course, Surzhyk is consequence of 450-year russification of Ukraine (especially during the soviet era). I suppose that the sooner Surzhyk will die out, the better.
About other Ukrainian dialects. I happened to go by bus from Sambir to Drohobych (in Lviv region). People came in and went out off the bus in every village we passed. Newcomers talked but I could not recognize a word of their speech; and they did speak Ukrainian!! Then step by step I began to understand what they talked. Then other people (from other Western Ukrainian village) came in and talked “their” Ukrainian. And I did not understand any word anew, as though they spoke Swahili!! So every village in Karpaty mountains has own dialect and we are to prepare our ears all right to understand. As well some consonants in Western Ukraine are pronounced like those of Polish. For example, [ñ], [ö] before [i], [º], [ÿ], [üî], [þ] sounds more like Ukrainian [ù]. (word “ñ³ìíàäöÿòü” sounds more like “ù³ìíàäùÿòü”). But I’d like that anybody who knows better than I do, join our discussion.
Now to the Ukrainian clubs here. There are a lot of Ukrainians living in Russia. The great percentage of Ukrainians live in Moscow, St Petersburg, Kuban’, Stavropolski Krai, Rostovskaya region, Voronezhskaya region (by the way the Southern part of it belonged to Ukraine before 20s or 30s of the XX century, if I’m not mistaken), Tyumenskaya region, Omskaya region, Novosibirskya region, Altaiski Krai, Khabarovski Krai and Primorski Krai (that is called Çåëåíèé Êëèí). According to Russian official data there are 6 million Ukrainians who live in the Russian Federation. Every person had his/her nationality written in his/her soviet passport. Now we don’t have special room in new Russian passports for national identification. The majority of Ukrainians do not want to be considered Ukrainians but Russians. But minority does. They install various òîâàðèñòâà, ñï³ëêè et cetera. We do not use the word “clubs” here; but actually we have clubs. Ukrainians sing national songs (by the way, I’d like to advise you to hear them: they’re really wonderful). I’ve read that the are about 22,000 Ukrainian songs. As well Ukrainians assemble in order to eat Ukrainian national dishes. Ukrainians living here are not engaged in politics or something like that.
OK, I think I’ve answered your questions.
I thought of opening a new topic too. I suggest to discuss about the culture and the language of Rusyns (a nation from Western Ukraine). I know almost noting about them and I’d like to know more.
¡Que te pase bien!
Nazario